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What punishment/penalty does a National Guardsman face if (Original Post) no_hypocrisy Oct 8 OP
from drunking keg stand? Javaman Oct 8 #1
Here's a link... MiHale Oct 8 #2
The penalty is a lot of time/money spent in court spent defending the decision. tinrobot Oct 8 #3
"as a court martial may direct" rampartd Oct 8 #4

Javaman

(64,736 posts)
1. from drunking keg stand?
Wed Oct 8, 2025, 09:07 AM
Oct 8

probably some sort of cosplay dressing down with a promise to throw the book at them, but the troops will eventually be found innocent, after many years, for disobeying an illegal order.

MiHale

(12,310 posts)
2. Here's a link...
Wed Oct 8, 2025, 09:11 AM
Oct 8

But in today’s military Hope is the same as before.

https://nlgmltf.org/military-law/2025/faq-on-refusing-illegal-orders/

Do I have the right to refuse illegal orders?
A. Yes! All members of the military have the right, and in some cases have the duty, to refuse illegal orders. Your oath is to the Constitution (which incorporates international treaties ratified by the U.S. on human rights and the law of war), not to the Commander-In-Chief or to any other individual in the chain of command. B. Under the UCMJ, a servicemember may be punished by court-martial for failure to obey any lawful general order or regulation. The UCMJ does not define what “lawful” means. The Rules for Court-Martial say that an order is lawful, “unless it is contrary to the Constitution, the laws of the United States, or lawful superior orders or for some other reason is beyond the authority of the official issuing it.” The Rules go on to say that, “This inference does not apply to a patently illegal order, such as one that directs the commission of a crime.” Finally, the Rules say, “The lawfulness of an order is a question of law to be determined by the military judge.” That determination normally can be made only after a servicemember refuses or obeys an order, in a court martial or a war crimes tribunal.

tinrobot

(11,839 posts)
3. The penalty is a lot of time/money spent in court spent defending the decision.
Wed Oct 8, 2025, 09:18 AM
Oct 8

Sure, they may have a strong case that the orders were illegal, but the resulting court battles would be significant.

A lot of them would not want to go down that road.

rampartd

(2,759 posts)
4. "as a court martial may direct"
Wed Oct 8, 2025, 09:19 AM
Oct 8

depends on the order and from whom.

an order to shoot delivered from on high? by tweet ? i'd like to be the young officer defending that. chain of command is the foundation of winning armies, a fact well understood by the officers judging courts martial.

"fire" from my squad leader? tough call. squeezing the trigger is instinctual. to hold fire takes a little time to think. and things are happening fast. not an excuse but i'm not sending anyone to the firing squad over it.

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