Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: On a Rainy Day [View all]Martin Eden
(15,861 posts)4. One Word
Intractable: an adjective describing something or someone that is very difficult to control, manage, handle, or solve. It often refers to stubborn, unyielding problems, behaviors, or conditions that resist efforts to change, cure, or manage them.
Intractable is the word that comes to mind regarding the Middle East conflict that has raged since Israel declared its independence as the Jewish nation state in 1948. In the broader context of history, this conflict stretches back thousands of years to "The Promised Land" and wars fought over the holy city of Jerusalem.
Many words are necessary to articulate my thoughts on this. I'll try to be succinct.
I think the Two State Solution has been practically impossible since the collapse of the Clinton Parameters in 2001. Israel has continued building settlements in the West Bank with roads connecting them, which has sliced and diced the land. There can be no sovereign Palestinian state unless those Jewish communities (some long established multigenerational) are abandoned. I highly doubt even the most liberal Israeli government would attempt that forcible removal.
Can there be a One State Solution that is not an apartheid state or does not involve the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, which is currently underway? While it is true that approximately 2 million Palestinians hold Israeli citizenship, granting full citizenship to all Palestinians within the prospective borders of a Greater Israel could become a demographic time bomb in which Jews would be a minority and the "Jewish State" would cease to exist.
While I despise Netanyahu and the hardline Zionists, I think I understand them. The Holocaust convinced them (not without good reason) that Jews would never have a secure future as minority residents in a foreign land. Many identified as German citizens first. Antisemitism has long existed in the USA (ever see "Gentleman's Agreement" with Gregory Peck?), and is currently on the rise. The Oct 7 Hamas attack that killed 1200 Israelis has reinforced the belief that a secure Jewish State is necessary.
That attack by Hamas was an atrocity. What the Isreali government has done to the civilian population in Gaza is, by any objective measure, a worse atrocity. Can a secure peace ever be attained with seemingly endless reciprocal atrocities?
I am not religious. Nor have I studied religion to any great length. It is my understanding that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity comprise the Abrahamic religions, all essentially worshipping the same Supreme Being. Given that, my view is that Jerusalem should be an international city of peace and brotherhood. Instead, human history is drenched with blood by wars fought in the name of God. In the hands of men who covet wealth and power, religion has been a means of control and subjugation.
I don't think human civilization itself has much of a secure future as long as we indulge divisive tribal mindsets based on religion, race, or the bipolar politics we have in the USA. We presume to impose our will on other countries when we can't get our own house in order.
When will Jews and Palestinians live in freedom and peace together in the Promised Land? When will nations like Saudi Arabia and Iran embrace human rights and freedoms for people of all religions or none, within and without their own borders?
Until then, practically intractable.
Intractable is the word that comes to mind regarding the Middle East conflict that has raged since Israel declared its independence as the Jewish nation state in 1948. In the broader context of history, this conflict stretches back thousands of years to "The Promised Land" and wars fought over the holy city of Jerusalem.
Many words are necessary to articulate my thoughts on this. I'll try to be succinct.
I think the Two State Solution has been practically impossible since the collapse of the Clinton Parameters in 2001. Israel has continued building settlements in the West Bank with roads connecting them, which has sliced and diced the land. There can be no sovereign Palestinian state unless those Jewish communities (some long established multigenerational) are abandoned. I highly doubt even the most liberal Israeli government would attempt that forcible removal.
Can there be a One State Solution that is not an apartheid state or does not involve the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, which is currently underway? While it is true that approximately 2 million Palestinians hold Israeli citizenship, granting full citizenship to all Palestinians within the prospective borders of a Greater Israel could become a demographic time bomb in which Jews would be a minority and the "Jewish State" would cease to exist.
While I despise Netanyahu and the hardline Zionists, I think I understand them. The Holocaust convinced them (not without good reason) that Jews would never have a secure future as minority residents in a foreign land. Many identified as German citizens first. Antisemitism has long existed in the USA (ever see "Gentleman's Agreement" with Gregory Peck?), and is currently on the rise. The Oct 7 Hamas attack that killed 1200 Israelis has reinforced the belief that a secure Jewish State is necessary.
That attack by Hamas was an atrocity. What the Isreali government has done to the civilian population in Gaza is, by any objective measure, a worse atrocity. Can a secure peace ever be attained with seemingly endless reciprocal atrocities?
I am not religious. Nor have I studied religion to any great length. It is my understanding that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity comprise the Abrahamic religions, all essentially worshipping the same Supreme Being. Given that, my view is that Jerusalem should be an international city of peace and brotherhood. Instead, human history is drenched with blood by wars fought in the name of God. In the hands of men who covet wealth and power, religion has been a means of control and subjugation.
I don't think human civilization itself has much of a secure future as long as we indulge divisive tribal mindsets based on religion, race, or the bipolar politics we have in the USA. We presume to impose our will on other countries when we can't get our own house in order.
When will Jews and Palestinians live in freedom and peace together in the Promised Land? When will nations like Saudi Arabia and Iran embrace human rights and freedoms for people of all religions or none, within and without their own borders?
Until then, practically intractable.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
2 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
45 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
you obviously don't see the virtue in enabling the election of a white supremacist, criminal madman
bigtree
Tuesday
#24
It has been a long while that I have seen so many of Israel's talking points summarized so well and succinctly.
AloeVera
Sunday
#9
I think you can find numerous statements and actions by Sen. Schumer, if you look, that condem every objectional aspect
bigtree
Monday
#17
I think it's sad that you can't find something that actually affects Americans to prioritize in the next election
bigtree
Tuesday
#33
the hubris in representing to me that you know ANYTHING substantive about what I believe
bigtree
Wednesday
#44
The attempts at restraint failed because there was little behind them to make them serious.
AloeVera
Wednesday
#41