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In reply to the discussion: On a Rainy Day [View all]

AloeVera

(4,391 posts)
9. It has been a long while that I have seen so many of Israel's talking points summarized so well and succinctly.
Sun May 10, 2026, 05:15 PM
Sunday

I am reluctant to respond, as weariness and disillusionment have long set in, but I'll give it a shot.

Taking the heat off AIPAC by appealing to worse problems seems like whataboutism or two wrongs make a right- thinking. I don't think it's a winning argument but ymmv.

Military aid to Israel is largely paid for by the U.S. taxpayer in one form or other. It is grant money, and in fact only Israel is allowed to use those grants to purchase from Israeli firms as welll as U.S. firms. Creating defense jobs doesn't hold much water with those opposed to the MIC or to ethnic cleansing and genocide carried out with the fruits of the labour of U.S. employees and the subsidy of U.S. taxpayers. People are realizing now that for Israel, war is the first option, not the last and it doesn't sit well with most of them. Aside from morality, war is expensive and touting defense jobs is likely not the winning argument it once was.

I would sincerely hope that Jewish Democrats choose sticking with their party and all it represents over allegiance to AIPAC or any other pro-Israel organization. There has been a sea-change in American Jews' attitudes towards Israel, not surprising as Israel demonstrates over and over again that it is not in alignment with democratic values, principles and seems to have jettisoned humanitarian and moral principles entirely. I have faith in Jewish Americans to make the right choice.

Of course Palestine was not a country but no one ever raises the fact that neither were Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq etc because we know the history of colonialism. We also know why, unlike the others, Palestine is not a country today.

It is never right to drive people out of their lands and homes. That's my response to your point about Jews being driven out of middle east countries AFTER the founding of Israel.

Which empire or ancient kingdom does not have a bloody history, including the ancient Kingdom of Israel? Amalek? And seriously, who is the aggressor today, not hundreds or thousands of years ago? In fact which country's leader boasted about inflicting another Amalek, this time on Palestinians, a promise he in fact made good to the approval of the majority of its citizens?

Paradise on the Mediterranean? Anyone who knows the history of what Israel did to Gaza for decades, instead of falling for Israel's talking points, is not going to believe that.

But out of all these talking points the one that really bothered me for 2 years was the one about people starving in Gaza because their leaders were apparently eating all their food. Or taking their aid money. Anyone who followed even at a cursory level Israel's planned and deliberate blocking of aid and literally starving children as a result, knows that that talking point is hogwash.

Sure, nuanced conversations would be great! But ones based on disproven or suspect talking points that mainly serve to demonize and "other" is not going to get us there.

Murder and assaults on people based on who they are, whether they are Jews or Palestinians or Black Americans, or ICE protesters is abhorrent. Violent, anti-semitic crimes against Jews are abominable and the uptick in violent crime - assaults and murder - against them since 2023 should be talked about. It is not at all "offset" by the decrease of 30-40% in non-violent crimes such as harassment and vandalism since 2024 so I understand why it is not mentioned. Yet it could be indicative of a coming downward trend in physical violence too, for which we can all hope.


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On a Rainy Day [View all] H2O Man Saturday OP
Individually Saoirse9 Sunday #1
A number of things. H2O Man Sunday #6
When was Dick Cheney "ushered on stage" to endorse? What event was that? betsuni Sunday #2
Okay. H2O Man Sunday #7
you obviously don't see the virtue in enabling the election of a white supremacist, criminal madman bigtree Tuesday #24
My brains shut down when I try to understand it. betsuni Wednesday #42
This message was self-deleted by its author betsuni Wednesday #43
"It is essential that we have a conversation on this complicated issue" Martin Eden Sunday #3
Very good! H2O Man Sunday #8
One Word Martin Eden Sunday #4
it's a hard conversation to have. mopinko Sunday #5
It has been a long while that I have seen so many of Israel's talking points summarized so well and succinctly. AloeVera Sunday #9
It definitely is hard. H2O Man Monday #11
i absolutely wish that jews believed in hell, mopinko Monday #13
Thank you! H2O Man Monday #15
Good OP malaise Sunday #10
Thank you! H2O Man Monday #12
interesting bigtree Monday #14
Interesting. H2O Man Monday #16
I think you can find numerous statements and actions by Sen. Schumer, if you look, that condem every objectional aspect bigtree Monday #17
Very good. H2O Man Monday #18
this is false bigtree Tuesday #21
Gracious! H2O Man Tuesday #22
that has nothing at all to do with what you claimed is my belief bigtree Tuesday #23
Sure it does. H2O Man Tuesday #25
well, you go on and tell me what I believe bigtree Tuesday #27
Golly. H2O Man Tuesday #28
responding to your continued effort to tell me what I believe bigtree Tuesday #29
You are funny! H2O Man Tuesday #30
you might not find it as funny if I did the same dishonest and demeaning thing bigtree Tuesday #31
I think that H2O Man Tuesday #32
I think it's sad that you can't find something that actually affects Americans to prioritize in the next election bigtree Tuesday #33
Comic genius! H2O Man Tuesday #34
like I said bigtree Tuesday #35
Ha! H2O Man Tuesday #36
lol, sweating 'Robert' bigtree Wednesday #37
I have never H2O Man Wednesday #38
there you go again, claiming I said things I haven't said or implied bigtree Wednesday #39
You are confused. H2O Man Wednesday #40
the hubris in representing to me that you know ANYTHING substantive about what I believe bigtree Wednesday #44
Catch-22, denialism and a few other things... AloeVera Monday #19
Americans were divided on that conflict bigtree Tuesday #20
The attempts at restraint failed because there was little behind them to make them serious. AloeVera Wednesday #41
I think you're assuming levers of influence that didn't exist for Biden bigtree Wednesday #45
I am reminded H2O Man Tuesday #26
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