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In reply to the discussion: On a Rainy Day [View all]

AloeVera

(4,378 posts)
19. Catch-22, denialism and a few other things...
Mon May 11, 2026, 11:29 PM
Monday

"...folks who thought voters should blame the Biden administration (and Kamala Harris, the eventual nominee negotiating for a ceasefire in '24) for what Netenyahu eventually did under Trump."

I don't understand this statement. The facts are pretty clear that Netanyahu did not have to wait for Trump to inflict the vast majority of damage to Gaza. By every metric of the death and destruction of war, the first 15 months were the most devastating and grotesque. Perhaps you didn't watch the daily atrocities and didn't see that shredded child hanging by a hook on the wall, and many other hellish scenes, as I did. In any case, facts and figures which I won't recite here prove my point.

And while Kamala said she was working tirelessly for a ceasefire, she also said that her commitment to Israel's security was 'iron-clad and "unshakeable". But voters wanted both a ceasefire and conditioned funding or even an arms embargo and they already figured out Netanyahu was not interested in a ceasefire unless he was pressured or threatened with consequences! I happen to believe that Democrats are smart people - they recognized a Catch-22 and a losing, disappointing strategy when they saw it.

I would not presume to think Democratic voters are so weak-minded that they would be influenced by "demagogues" one way or another. I think Democratic non-voters made up their own minds, based on what they saw with their own eyes - shredded kids and a moral disaster for their party. That would tend to be somewhat demoralizing and suppress voter turn-out.

"....that issue in the election was a deliberately diverting and divisive canard, considering the republican opposition and the abdication of responsibility we've all witnessed from them.:

Opposition to the war and asking your President and then your candidate for conditioned funding or an arms embargo to protect Palestinians from war crimes and slaughter was a distraction and divisive? And it was irrelevant anyway because... it was all the fault of republicans?

I don't know quite the term to describe this line of thinking but denialism or revisionism comes to mind.

In case you're interested, here is a very insightful and fact-filled scholarly article that might disabuse you of these notions. No, it does not present a pretty picture so if you read it, keep an open mind. But it is reality - it's what happened and the sum total of it all was just too demoralizing for a lot of people who never made it to the voting booth.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/waf2.70009

"...Democrats need to remind voters that their energy and efforts aren't mired in the fate of some nation or interest other than the United States and our people."

That's not what voters saw, quite the opposite. It's a bit ironic that you put it that way...

Aside from every other rotten consequence of the disastrous Gaza/Israel foreign policy, it's clear to me that the road to Iran (and don't forget Lebanon!) started in the ruins of Gaza and the unconditional support for Israel. There should be some lessons learned here for the Democratic Party, but that won't happen unless there is open and honest discussion and TAKING RESPONSIBILITY - no denialism or revisionism - whatever it takes to bring back those lost voters and restore faith in what the Democratic Party stands for.

Recommendations

2 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

On a Rainy Day [View all] H2O Man Saturday OP
Individually Saoirse9 Sunday #1
A number of things. H2O Man Sunday #6
When was Dick Cheney "ushered on stage" to endorse? What event was that? betsuni Sunday #2
Okay. H2O Man Sunday #7
you obviously don't see the virtue in enabling the election of a white supremacist, criminal madman bigtree Yesterday #24
My brains shut down when I try to understand it. betsuni 11 hrs ago #42
This message was self-deleted by its author betsuni 11 hrs ago #43
"It is essential that we have a conversation on this complicated issue" Martin Eden Sunday #3
Very good! H2O Man Sunday #8
One Word Martin Eden Sunday #4
it's a hard conversation to have. mopinko Sunday #5
It has been a long while that I have seen so many of Israel's talking points summarized so well and succinctly. AloeVera Sunday #9
It definitely is hard. H2O Man Monday #11
i absolutely wish that jews believed in hell, mopinko Monday #13
Thank you! H2O Man Monday #15
Good OP malaise Sunday #10
Thank you! H2O Man Monday #12
interesting bigtree Monday #14
Interesting. H2O Man Monday #16
I think you can find numerous statements and actions by Sen. Schumer, if you look, that condem every objectional aspect bigtree Monday #17
Very good. H2O Man Monday #18
this is false bigtree Yesterday #21
Gracious! H2O Man Yesterday #22
that has nothing at all to do with what you claimed is my belief bigtree Yesterday #23
Sure it does. H2O Man Yesterday #25
well, you go on and tell me what I believe bigtree 21 hrs ago #27
Golly. H2O Man 18 hrs ago #28
responding to your continued effort to tell me what I believe bigtree 16 hrs ago #29
You are funny! H2O Man 16 hrs ago #30
you might not find it as funny if I did the same dishonest and demeaning thing bigtree 14 hrs ago #31
I think that H2O Man 14 hrs ago #32
I think it's sad that you can't find something that actually affects Americans to prioritize in the next election bigtree 13 hrs ago #33
Comic genius! H2O Man 13 hrs ago #34
like I said bigtree 13 hrs ago #35
Ha! H2O Man 12 hrs ago #36
lol, sweating 'Robert' bigtree 12 hrs ago #37
I have never H2O Man 12 hrs ago #38
there you go again, claiming I said things I haven't said or implied bigtree 12 hrs ago #39
You are confused. H2O Man 12 hrs ago #40
the hubris in representing to me that you know ANYTHING substantive about what I believe bigtree 11 hrs ago #44
Catch-22, denialism and a few other things... AloeVera Monday #19
Americans were divided on that conflict bigtree Yesterday #20
The attempts at restraint failed because there was little behind them to make them serious. AloeVera 12 hrs ago #41
I think you're assuming levers of influence that didn't exist for Biden bigtree 11 hrs ago #45
I am reminded H2O Man 23 hrs ago #26
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